6 Aug 2025

Listen: Nicola Willis and Carmel Sepuloni go head-to-head on Morning Report's new political panel

8:53 am on 6 August 2025
Labour Party's Carmel Sepuloni and National Party's Nicola Willis.

Nicola Willis and Carmel Sepuloni. Photo: RNZ

Labour's deputy leader Carmel Sepuloni says many recent job losses were completely avoidable.

Unemployment is forecast to hit a nine-year high in figures due out on Wednesday.

Economists expect the rate to rise to 5.3 percent for the June quarter - the highest since the end of 2016. Wage growth is also expected to cool further.

National deputy leader Nicola Willis and Labour deputy leader Carmel Sepuloni debated employment, along with emergency housing, on Morning Report's new political panel.

Willis said the government was trying to bring the numbers of jobless down and she was mindful that at the time of the last election in 2023 Treasury was forecasting that unemployment would be 5.4 percent by now.

"So higher than the economists are now predicting."

She said by managing the basics well, such as inflation and interest rates and investing in infrastructure the numbers would improve.

Sepuloni responded that thousands of jobs had been lost in the construction sector in the last 18 months because the government had paused many of Labour's projects. The health sector had a hiring freeze and this meant thousands of jobs went unfilled.

"We would have continued on our trajectory investing in the infrastructure projects and not put the pause on so we wouldn't have seen the mass job losses in that area.

"We would have prioritised the health sector over tax cuts for landlords and the tobacco industry."

She accused the government of giving with one hand and taking away with the other.

Willis was confident the government would turn things around and forecasts showed that over the next four years another 240,000 jobs would be created.

People's livelihoods were the main reason the government needed to get the economy growing and this would encourage employers to hire more.

Homelessness a complex problem to solve

She said homelessness had grown 37 percent in the last five years.

The government was working closely with community social services to try and reduce it but it was complicated by the likes of mental health and addiction issues.

About 2000 children previously living in motels were now in homes "and that's a good outcome for them".

However, Sepuloni countered the government's changes to the emergency housing criteria were a major reason for more people couch surfing or sleeping in risky situations.

The revised policy was not the "remarkable success" the government was claiming, she said.

"We're really concerned about what the criteria are ... the vast majority are not homeless because they're on P, there are a whole lot of factors that come into play. Sadly the cost of living crisis, the cost of housing, the poverty people are experiencing is playing a major factor in that."

Listen to the full panel above or on our app.

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